Kevin Zelko Interviews El Clasico Filmmaker Kelly Candaele

El Clasico is the name colloquially given to clashes between La Liga’s two giants, Barcelona and Real Madrid.

Gorilla FC President Kevin Zelko talked to the maker of a new film about the rivalry, Kelly Candaele.

The interview with Candaele, director of the film, El Clásico — More Than a Game, is scheduled to run in the March edition of the GFC Newsletter which is available to members and non-members by signing up at http://www.gorillafc.com.

Kevin Zelko: What drew you into El Clasico and that rivalry in particular?

Kelly Candaele: What was interesting to me about this rivalry is the historical, political and cultural elements that go into it.

While the United States has its intense rivalries in sports, I don’t know of one that has the historical and political weight of this one – how culture and politics is filtered through these two teams, particularly in the case of Barcelona.

The symbolism of these two teams and what they mean to their fans is very deep.

Kevin Zelko: Do you have a favorite team between the two?

Kelly Candaele: I like the fact that these two teams are in many ways an expression of two different styles in soccer.  Real Madrid represents power, speed and strength – attacking the goal, while Barcelona represents control and patience.

These are both beautiful styles in many ways but I have to say that it is Barcelona’s style and approach that interested me the most because it seemed so unique in the world of soccer.  There is a kind of philosophy associated with these to styles and a way of approaching team play that is critical.  Barcelona has a kind of geometric precision to the way they play and the discipline that this takes is fascinating.  How do you train a team or even an organization to adopt this method and keep to it?  That’s what interests me as someone who came late to an appreciation of soccer.

Kevin Zelko: Did the political backgrounds of the two teams factor in to your interest?

Kelly Candaele: During the making of the film we found that Barcelona was much more open in talking about “politics” you might say.  Not so much the players – although with the waving of the Catalan flag and the explicit pride that the Catalan players take in their culture and language are kinds of political gestures – but the staff and executives of the team who are willing to talk directly about culture and history and its impact on the team.

With Real Madrid, we found that they have been seen and used as an expression of Spanish success during the Franco years – a way that they became a kind of diplomatic reach into the outside world when Spain was very insular and something of a pariah internationally.   That was a fascinating part of the story.

Kevin Zelko: What player on each team is the biggest legend/most impact on the field for these two teams?

Kelly Candaele: It is clear that Messi is already a legend at this young age.  He does things with the ball that defy logic and physics to me.  And how people talk about him in terms of how he plays with Barca with success as a team and then with Argentina with less success leads to many debates about teamwork, philosophy of individualism and the debate about who is the “greatest” of all time with respect to Maradona and Pele is also intriguing.

Kelly at work

Also I’m intrigued by the role of the great mid-fielders and how they fit into this program and approach.  So I’ve gained a new respect for the importance of controlling the mid-field and how important this is to success.

With Ronaldo, what is interesting is how people project their values and ideas about sports and society onto him.  Is he selfish?  Is he an egotist?  Is he too concerned about his image and/or looks.   His statistics alone make him one of the greats, but it is the other questions that interest me sociologically and psychologically you might say.

Kevin Zelko: Who are the greatest villians/headcases in the rivalry?

Kelly Candaele: We have a section in the movie about Figo and his transfer to Real Madrid after playing in Barcelona.  One of the journalists we interviewed makes that statement that the Barcelona fans “hated him so much because they loved him so much.”   So in this sense he became a “villain,” but in a complicated way.

Again the projection of these intense emotions onto this player who was taking advantage of their “market value” by joining the other team.  In terms of “head cases” we were fascinated by the debate about Mourinho and how his coaching style is so provocative and how this debate in Madrid is taking place about whether he is appropriate to how Madrianos see themselves and how they want to be seen.  Again, the emergence of societal values into the attitudes towards the team and its image.

Kevin Zelko: How many El Clasico’s have you been to?

Kelly Candaele: We got all of our students into one Clasico in Madrid which Barcelona won.  This is after everyone in Madrid said we would never get in because tickets were selling for 1000 Euro outside the stadium.  We were lucky in that a friend David Peck in Madrid helped us with a business connection who brought our students into a Palco (Corporate Box) and the officials at Real Madrid were very generous in allowing us to buy some extra tickets at face value.

Myself and producing partner Celia Brugman also went back to film Spain a second trip and we saw a Clasico in Barcelona where Barca won 5-0 in a display of beautiful soccer.   I don’t know about this but it has to be one of the best displays of soccer that any team has played.   I’m not an historian of the game and there would certainly be debate about this, but it was amazing to watch even though we were very high up in the stadium.

Kevin Zelko: How much film footage was filmed to make the movie?

Kelly Candaele: We shot about 60 hours of footage that has been distilled into 55 minutes.  This is always the hardest part of documentary film-making.  What do you decide to keep and what stories do you cut out.  It is painful – like cutting off an appendage.    So many comments and insights that people have.

But we tried to be fair in our approach and not take anything based on rumor in terms of what one team did or what the refs did in a particular game.

If one side provided one analysis that benefited the image of their side, we always found someone with authority to give another interpretation or a way of making the debate more complex which is usually the situation in complex societies like Spain.

Kevin Zelko: What are you two favorite moments in the rivalry between Barca and Madrid?

Kelly Candaele: My history of following this rivalry does not go back decades like a lot of people but during the past few years of following it I would have to say the game in Barcelona that I saw was a favorite because I will always be able to say I saw Messi and one of the great teams in soccer history play.

Also being on the field shooting Real Madrid practices at UCLA when they were here was impressive because it gives you an idea of how hard these guys work and the approach of Mourinho – one of the most successful contemporary managers – to getting his players ready for the season.   You get to see things up close in a way that most fans don’t get to witness.    I also met Zidane briefly in San Diego at a Real Madrid game to that was a real thrill.  He looked fit and ready to play still.

Kevin Zelko: Do the supporters make the rivalry or the players?

Celia Brugman in Madrid

Kelly Candaele: This is an interesting question.  Obviously the players are the ones on the field and the intensity they bring to the match creates the rivalry.  For instance this year it seems that Barca is just not raising to the intensity they need when playing other teams but when they play Real Madrid they ratchet up their game.

So I think there is a mutual interaction between players and fans that takes place in all athletic contests which is what makes them so enjoyable and satisfying emotionally.  I was going to say there is a finality to sports contests that is satisfying but of course in soccer there are many ties which is the frustrating part of the game to me – particularly when a penalty shoot out decides the game.  This is the one area where I would change the rule for the last game of the World Cup.  There should be no penalty shoot out – play until the players die on the field or one team scores.

Kevin Zelko: Can you describe some of the best info you have seen while making this film?

Kelly Candaele: Not sure what info you are referring to but the most enjoyable part for me was reading some of the historical works on the rivalry.  Phil Ball’s book Morbo was great.  How Soccer Explains the World by Franklin Foer was instructive.  Interviewing historians about Spanish history was great for my students.  So we approached this from both an academic point of view and from a sports perspective.    There are many thoughtful and intelligent people who taught me and my students about the history and complexity of Spanish culture.  And we loved the food, wine and openness of the Spanish people.

Photos courtesy of the El Clasico website